@pixel@desu.social yeah mastodon quotes suck because the idea of approving quotes is stupid

you didnt solve bullying you just made quotes annoying to use (and if i want to dunk on someone, ill just link the post manually or add a screenshot or whatever else)

@pixel@desu.social oh and now everyone has to implement quotes the Mastodon Way because it's the 800 pound gorilla of this network

@halva a way that they discussed in public with non-Mastodon team members to find the best compromise of a solution.

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/pre-fep-quote-posts-quote-policies-and-quote-controls/5031

@pixel@desu.social so you're saying we shouldn't criticize mastodon and be thankful to our lord and saviour gargron?

seriously, there were different ways of doing it (and one somewhat standard FEP) but mastodon chose to not use either of them.

i don't think these restrictions are very effective in practice, if in doubt you could just post a screenshot instead, which won't even notify the quoted user (i.e. the previous status quo)

@pixel@desu.social this already starts off with the assumption that you can moderate people being people by making Polite Software that Does Things Respectably and that is their sole goal, and they're stating that this is how they're gonna do it — others can only chime in to discuss the details

and the discussion was about implementation details, not about the fact that the original idea is rather stupid in its premise as the team had already made up their mind about it lol

@pixel@desu.social in essence, mastodon's stance on quotes hasn't changed at all. it's still presumed that a convenient way of linking a post is automatically evil and violates consent

it's still presumed that posting about a post carries some weird innate power and aura over replying to a post

it's just that they conceded on adding a button, except the button's been gutted and broken anywhere but mastodon for the sake of not changing the stance

@halva who knows, maybe they make it less broken with 4.5 for anything that doesn't report on quote control info so that it's less bad in terms of UX?

people on Mastodon can't even quote yet, we got a "hey look, we're making an effort and this is the first step" update, not the full thing working, or not.

@halva I was on Twitter when quotes became a thing and it very much was a reason why behavior towards each other tanked massively

so, for a while I agreed with Masto's stance on not adding them. now I could care less, but them trying to add something to prevent this from happening again is not a bad thing.

building privacy/consent controls in a federated system is probably a massive pain, but we'll see it fixed eventually.

@Johann150 I'm not saying you are not allowed to criticize Mastodon, not all decisions are good ones.

of course you can post a screenshot, but people will go the easiest way, and if they are used to grabbing a link to point at, they'd do the same out of habit again.

of course, there's always ways to circumvent stuff (esp. in a federated environment) but having Mastodon even go as far as adding support for quotes is a big step forward.

@Johann150 and the other point I made is that the system was just added halfway too, it's not done yet, who knows what happens until 4.5 and maybe the main thing (with the "quote needs approval" thing) is toned down/fixed as well.