@a1ba@suya.place @cnlohr@chaos.social @ignaloidas@not.acu.lt And well, stuff like fopen() is part of ISO C, so without it… what you'd have is a subset of ISO C, at which point what the heck is that environment even from a portability point of view.

@lanodan @cnlohr @ignaloidas I started appreciating actually somewhat conforming environments after I've witnessed homebrew development on switch, psvita and psp.

In all three cases it's some random newlib + gcc port. newlib kinda okay for ISO C99-ish. But C++? Eh... POSIX? Don't even think about it.

It's an enormous amount of work, yeah. But I understand now why people don't maintain their ports for these targets for too long.

@a1ba @ignaloidas

Wasm is perfectly fine (except for that it's not ASM and doesn't allow goto). But for what it is it's perfectly fine, and great for web.

If it was bad, you wouldn't be able to make full 3D apps in C for 10kB (wrappers included).

(But really I will never stop being hurt by this thread https://github.com/WebAssembly/design/issues/796)

@cnlohr @ignaloidas and so could asm.js. And so can plain javascript.

if it all boils down to calling webgl why do I need an extra step with C if it's gonna be javascript anyway?

@a1ba @ignaloidas You can write and use c libs and apps. I would expect something like emdoom could just straight up run.

@cnlohr @ignaloidas and so, again, could've be done with asm.js long before wasm.

I want to write for web in single language. It means either C or JS should go away.

what problem wasm does solve? Yeah, using existing C code is cool but then you have another problem which is emscripten and all it's quirks

please read the thread, it's already has been discussed.

@a1ba@suya.place @cnlohr@chaos.social you understand that you don't have to use emscripten, right? Many don't.

It's just that nobody cares/wants to build websites from wasm alone

@ignaloidas @cnlohr sure, yeah, I can implement all needed stuff myself, but that doesn't really fall into category of using "existing C code", right?

At that point I can just hack it until it works or rewrite it in JS.

@a1ba@suya.place @cnlohr@chaos.social I mean, almost everything that isn't JS or Lua or similar is hopelessly tied to POSIX. You either reduce the stuff that's donw in other languages to end up as just simple processing routines, end up implementing emscripten yourself, or rewrite it in JS.

@ignaloidas @cnlohr exactly.