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  3. Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn.

Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn.

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  • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
    wrote last edited by magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
    #1

    Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn. If buying new cables, CAT8.2 is a appealing option imo, especially ij terms of future proofing. I know I won't be able to go over the 500MHz of CAT6A without a better connector than RJ45, correct? Afaik GG45 ports are backwards compatible and can be used in the future when devices might upgrade their ports too. So a hypothetical setup just to understand things: Most home routers have RJ45 ports as of right now, lets say those are 1Gbit capable. Connecting that via a patch cable to a CAT8.2 line (with GG45 ports on both ends) to a patch panel which comprises of only GG45 connectors. That in turn gets connected to a 2,5Gbit or even 10Gbit switch through ≥CAT7a cables with RJ45 connectors. The connection from the switch to the patch panel and to the end-user devices are the same. That should work and would make it easy to upgrade by swapping out the patch cables and switch to a better one with GG45 connectors in the future, right?
    Now the question I haven't quite understood and maybe it is a very dumb and obvious to answer question: If the 1Gbit router were to stay in place, but the switch, cables and end-user devices are all set for higher throughput, would a client connecting to a NAS for example or any other use case with high-throughput operations between at least 2 computers in the network still benefit from the higher speeds or be bottle necked by the router? In my head it would be possible as soon as the connection between the devices is set, that all traffic gets exchanged directly/is handled by the switch, but maybe I am wrong...

    #Networking

    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM mware@mstdn.caM jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ ? 4 Replies Last reply
    0
    • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

      Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn. If buying new cables, CAT8.2 is a appealing option imo, especially ij terms of future proofing. I know I won't be able to go over the 500MHz of CAT6A without a better connector than RJ45, correct? Afaik GG45 ports are backwards compatible and can be used in the future when devices might upgrade their ports too. So a hypothetical setup just to understand things: Most home routers have RJ45 ports as of right now, lets say those are 1Gbit capable. Connecting that via a patch cable to a CAT8.2 line (with GG45 ports on both ends) to a patch panel which comprises of only GG45 connectors. That in turn gets connected to a 2,5Gbit or even 10Gbit switch through ≥CAT7a cables with RJ45 connectors. The connection from the switch to the patch panel and to the end-user devices are the same. That should work and would make it easy to upgrade by swapping out the patch cables and switch to a better one with GG45 connectors in the future, right?
      Now the question I haven't quite understood and maybe it is a very dumb and obvious to answer question: If the 1Gbit router were to stay in place, but the switch, cables and end-user devices are all set for higher throughput, would a client connecting to a NAS for example or any other use case with high-throughput operations between at least 2 computers in the network still benefit from the higher speeds or be bottle necked by the router? In my head it would be possible as soon as the connection between the devices is set, that all traffic gets exchanged directly/is handled by the switch, but maybe I am wrong...

      #Networking

      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
      wrote last edited by magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
      #2

      Just realised that CAT7A does not make much sense for this example because there are CAT6A cables thatc an do 10Gig aswell, lets just say the cables eith GG45 connectors are CAT8.2. (Will edit the post above to say CAT8.2, but in case that does not federate correctly I am writing this down here)

      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de shared this topic
      • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

        Just realised that CAT7A does not make much sense for this example because there are CAT6A cables thatc an do 10Gig aswell, lets just say the cables eith GG45 connectors are CAT8.2. (Will edit the post above to say CAT8.2, but in case that does not federate correctly I am writing this down here)

        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
        wrote last edited by
        #3

        Next question in line: what cable would you buy as patch cables in the abovr scenario (meaning with CAT8.2 going between patchpanel and devices)? CAT6A, CAT7/a or even CAT8.1?

        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

          Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn. If buying new cables, CAT8.2 is a appealing option imo, especially ij terms of future proofing. I know I won't be able to go over the 500MHz of CAT6A without a better connector than RJ45, correct? Afaik GG45 ports are backwards compatible and can be used in the future when devices might upgrade their ports too. So a hypothetical setup just to understand things: Most home routers have RJ45 ports as of right now, lets say those are 1Gbit capable. Connecting that via a patch cable to a CAT8.2 line (with GG45 ports on both ends) to a patch panel which comprises of only GG45 connectors. That in turn gets connected to a 2,5Gbit or even 10Gbit switch through ≥CAT7a cables with RJ45 connectors. The connection from the switch to the patch panel and to the end-user devices are the same. That should work and would make it easy to upgrade by swapping out the patch cables and switch to a better one with GG45 connectors in the future, right?
          Now the question I haven't quite understood and maybe it is a very dumb and obvious to answer question: If the 1Gbit router were to stay in place, but the switch, cables and end-user devices are all set for higher throughput, would a client connecting to a NAS for example or any other use case with high-throughput operations between at least 2 computers in the network still benefit from the higher speeds or be bottle necked by the router? In my head it would be possible as soon as the connection between the devices is set, that all traffic gets exchanged directly/is handled by the switch, but maybe I am wrong...

          #Networking

          mware@mstdn.caM This user is from outside of this forum
          mware@mstdn.caM This user is from outside of this forum
          mware@mstdn.ca
          wrote last edited by
          #4

          @MagicLike I'd sooner use prefab SMF cables (or even MMF) and not worry about the pain of (what amounts to) 10Gbit modems.

          You're trying to live on the bleeding edge where little else is - why bother?

          Finally you're conflating Layer 3 and Layer 1 stuff; switch is a switch, router doesn't enter the picture for LAN-to-LAN stuff, except maybe to do your DHCP.

          magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

            Next question in line: what cable would you buy as patch cables in the abovr scenario (meaning with CAT8.2 going between patchpanel and devices)? CAT6A, CAT7/a or even CAT8.1?

            magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
            magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
            magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
            wrote last edited by
            #5

            Then what switch would you choose / what brand? (In this case going for 2,5Gig switches with a minimum total port amount of 20)

            magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

              Then what switch would you choose / what brand? (In this case going for 2,5Gig switches with a minimum total port amount of 20)

              magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
              magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
              magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
              wrote last edited by
              #6

              If looking for a small 19" rack (like between 5-10HE) to neatly mount everything, what brand would you look for/what is important to look out for?
              Also there sure are cages/adapters to mount non-rack devices in one, right? (Especially stuff that can be wall-mounted)

              erik@mastodon.infrageeks.socialE 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

                Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn. If buying new cables, CAT8.2 is a appealing option imo, especially ij terms of future proofing. I know I won't be able to go over the 500MHz of CAT6A without a better connector than RJ45, correct? Afaik GG45 ports are backwards compatible and can be used in the future when devices might upgrade their ports too. So a hypothetical setup just to understand things: Most home routers have RJ45 ports as of right now, lets say those are 1Gbit capable. Connecting that via a patch cable to a CAT8.2 line (with GG45 ports on both ends) to a patch panel which comprises of only GG45 connectors. That in turn gets connected to a 2,5Gbit or even 10Gbit switch through ≥CAT7a cables with RJ45 connectors. The connection from the switch to the patch panel and to the end-user devices are the same. That should work and would make it easy to upgrade by swapping out the patch cables and switch to a better one with GG45 connectors in the future, right?
                Now the question I haven't quite understood and maybe it is a very dumb and obvious to answer question: If the 1Gbit router were to stay in place, but the switch, cables and end-user devices are all set for higher throughput, would a client connecting to a NAS for example or any other use case with high-throughput operations between at least 2 computers in the network still benefit from the higher speeds or be bottle necked by the router? In my head it would be possible as soon as the connection between the devices is set, that all traffic gets exchanged directly/is handled by the switch, but maybe I am wrong...

                #Networking

                jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net
                wrote last edited by
                #7

                @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de i only really have experience with consumer-level ethernet equipment, but for the most part ethernet just works

                i'm not sure if it would make sense to buy more expensive cable to future proof it, i don't really have experience with that. i just have random cat 5e/6 rj45 cables which work fine for 1gbps and 2.5gbps ethernet

                and yeah, ethernet switches do handle mixed speeds just like you'd expect, e.g. if all devices on a 2.5gbps switch are 2.5gbps except the router, they can communicate with each other at 2.5 gbps and will only downgrade to 1 gbps when they speak to the router

                magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • mware@mstdn.caM mware@mstdn.ca

                  @MagicLike I'd sooner use prefab SMF cables (or even MMF) and not worry about the pain of (what amounts to) 10Gbit modems.

                  You're trying to live on the bleeding edge where little else is - why bother?

                  Finally you're conflating Layer 3 and Layer 1 stuff; switch is a switch, router doesn't enter the picture for LAN-to-LAN stuff, except maybe to do your DHCP.

                  magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                  magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                  magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                  wrote last edited by magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                  #8

                  @mWare

                  I'd sooner use prefab SMF cables (or even MMF) and not worry about the pain of (what amounts to) 10Gbit modems.

                  You're trying to live on the bleeding edge where little else is - why bother?

                  okay, it took me some time to decipher what you wrote, I really am a networking noob and am trying some thought experiments and find out if it a) would even work and b) makes any sense at all.
                  Fiber is not really a practical option in my scenario (even tho I would love it to be one).
                  Would you say besides the potential 25/40BASE-T capabilities of CAT8.2 that there are any other benefits, like idk better signal integrity?

                  Finally you're conflating Layer 3 and Layer 1 stuff; switch is a switch, router doesn't enter the picture for LAN-to-LAN stuff, except maybe to do your DHCP.

                  Ohh okay so I was right - thank you!

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net

                    @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de i only really have experience with consumer-level ethernet equipment, but for the most part ethernet just works

                    i'm not sure if it would make sense to buy more expensive cable to future proof it, i don't really have experience with that. i just have random cat 5e/6 rj45 cables which work fine for 1gbps and 2.5gbps ethernet

                    and yeah, ethernet switches do handle mixed speeds just like you'd expect, e.g. if all devices on a 2.5gbps switch are 2.5gbps except the router, they can communicate with each other at 2.5 gbps and will only downgrade to 1 gbps when they speak to the router

                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                    wrote last edited by
                    #9

                    @jiub mhm alright, thank you :3 - I am just wondering about what to choose for the case of permanently installing new cables but yeah I know that theoretically CAT6 or even CAT5e would be fine...

                    jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

                      @jiub mhm alright, thank you :3 - I am just wondering about what to choose for the case of permanently installing new cables but yeah I know that theoretically CAT6 or even CAT5e would be fine...

                      jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                      jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net
                      wrote last edited by
                      #10

                      @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de true, if you're permanently installing cables inside the wall or smth it might be worth spending extra! i just don't know what the best value is

                      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net

                        @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de true, if you're permanently installing cables inside the wall or smth it might be worth spending extra! i just don't know what the best value is

                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                        wrote last edited by
                        #11

                        @jiub yeah same here >.>

                        jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

                          @jiub yeah same here >.>

                          jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                          jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net
                          wrote last edited by
                          #12

                          @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de maybe cat 6a is the sweet spot? that's rated for 10 gbps, and looking at bulk cable prices in the US, it's only about 30% more expensive than cat 5e, while cat 7/8 is much more expensive

                          i also suspect that future ethernet standards will increase the speeds of existing cable as well. for example, 2.5gbase-t and 5gbase-t only date to 2016 and increased the official maximum speed of cat 5e from 1 gbps to 5 gbps

                          ? 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

                            If looking for a small 19" rack (like between 5-10HE) to neatly mount everything, what brand would you look for/what is important to look out for?
                            Also there sure are cages/adapters to mount non-rack devices in one, right? (Especially stuff that can be wall-mounted)

                            erik@mastodon.infrageeks.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            erik@mastodon.infrageeks.socialE This user is from outside of this forum
                            erik@mastodon.infrageeks.social
                            wrote last edited by
                            #13

                            @MagicLike Startech makes good stuff but smaller racks may be filed under audio equipment. For cages, it is often harder to find anything more specific than a shelf, but 3D printers are your friend here

                            magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de

                              Alright, networking is scary but I want to learn. If buying new cables, CAT8.2 is a appealing option imo, especially ij terms of future proofing. I know I won't be able to go over the 500MHz of CAT6A without a better connector than RJ45, correct? Afaik GG45 ports are backwards compatible and can be used in the future when devices might upgrade their ports too. So a hypothetical setup just to understand things: Most home routers have RJ45 ports as of right now, lets say those are 1Gbit capable. Connecting that via a patch cable to a CAT8.2 line (with GG45 ports on both ends) to a patch panel which comprises of only GG45 connectors. That in turn gets connected to a 2,5Gbit or even 10Gbit switch through ≥CAT7a cables with RJ45 connectors. The connection from the switch to the patch panel and to the end-user devices are the same. That should work and would make it easy to upgrade by swapping out the patch cables and switch to a better one with GG45 connectors in the future, right?
                              Now the question I haven't quite understood and maybe it is a very dumb and obvious to answer question: If the 1Gbit router were to stay in place, but the switch, cables and end-user devices are all set for higher throughput, would a client connecting to a NAS for example or any other use case with high-throughput operations between at least 2 computers in the network still benefit from the higher speeds or be bottle necked by the router? In my head it would be possible as soon as the connection between the devices is set, that all traffic gets exchanged directly/is handled by the switch, but maybe I am wrong...

                              #Networking

                              ? Offline
                              ? Offline
                              Guest
                              wrote last edited by
                              #14

                              @MagicLike
                              1. Never heard of GG45 till today, so I can promise if you use it you’ll have to convert every single plug back to RJ45 to use it. Looks proprietary and practically experimental. I’d avoid at all costs.
                              2. CAT7+ is useless to 99+% of the population. CAT5e is significantly easier to work with, effective for gigabit anywhere or 10Gbps on short runs. CAT6a will do 10Gbps as far as you’ll practically need it. Fiber is by far the better option for anything high speed running beyond 50 meters / 150ft.
                              3. Separate your OSI model layers. Layer 1 is explained above (buy CAT5e/6a + RJ45). Layer 2 on a flat network is handled entirely by your switches and access points. Layer 3 is where your router comes in. Unless you’re using VLANs or something funky (for a home), your router is only going to impact speeds heading out to the internet. If you’re concerned with local speeds to a NAS, you should focus on getting switches that support the necessary speeds.

                              magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net

                                @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de maybe cat 6a is the sweet spot? that's rated for 10 gbps, and looking at bulk cable prices in the US, it's only about 30% more expensive than cat 5e, while cat 7/8 is much more expensive

                                i also suspect that future ethernet standards will increase the speeds of existing cable as well. for example, 2.5gbase-t and 5gbase-t only date to 2016 and increased the official maximum speed of cat 5e from 1 gbps to 5 gbps

                                ? Offline
                                ? Offline
                                Guest
                                wrote last edited by
                                #15

                                @jiub @MagicLike CAT5e can reliably run 10Gbps up to about 10m. I’d run 6A inside my walls to guarantee 10Gbps works, but 5e is my pick for anything accessible/short/1Gbps.

                                jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • ? Guest

                                  @jiub @MagicLike CAT5e can reliably run 10Gbps up to about 10m. I’d run 6A inside my walls to guarantee 10Gbps works, but 5e is my pick for anything accessible/short/1Gbps.

                                  jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @ClickyMcTicker@hachyderm.io @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de interesting, thanks for the practical info! i have no experience with anything faster than 2.5gbps (which i just got recently lol)

                                  magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.netJ jiub@not.an.evilcyberhacker.net

                                    @ClickyMcTicker@hachyderm.io @MagicLike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de interesting, thanks for the practical info! i have no experience with anything faster than 2.5gbps (which i just got recently lol)

                                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                    magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @jiub @ClickyMcTicker mhm maybe that is actually the way to goo...

                                    1 Reply Last reply
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                                    • erik@mastodon.infrageeks.socialE erik@mastodon.infrageeks.social

                                      @MagicLike Startech makes good stuff but smaller racks may be filed under audio equipment. For cages, it is often harder to find anything more specific than a shelf, but 3D printers are your friend here

                                      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #18

                                      @erik thx for the tip, will be checking out Startech ❤

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • ? Guest

                                        @MagicLike
                                        1. Never heard of GG45 till today, so I can promise if you use it you’ll have to convert every single plug back to RJ45 to use it. Looks proprietary and practically experimental. I’d avoid at all costs.
                                        2. CAT7+ is useless to 99+% of the population. CAT5e is significantly easier to work with, effective for gigabit anywhere or 10Gbps on short runs. CAT6a will do 10Gbps as far as you’ll practically need it. Fiber is by far the better option for anything high speed running beyond 50 meters / 150ft.
                                        3. Separate your OSI model layers. Layer 1 is explained above (buy CAT5e/6a + RJ45). Layer 2 on a flat network is handled entirely by your switches and access points. Layer 3 is where your router comes in. Unless you’re using VLANs or something funky (for a home), your router is only going to impact speeds heading out to the internet. If you’re concerned with local speeds to a NAS, you should focus on getting switches that support the necessary speeds.

                                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.deM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        magiclike@soc.sekundenklebertransportverbot.de
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @ClickyMcTicker thanks for taking the time to answer a lot of my questions/confusions/etc.! ❤
                                        Multiple people now suggested me to just use CAT6A for permanent installations, guess that may actually be the sweet spot with enough headroom for the future.

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