I have an idea for an ActivityPub project.
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So here's the idea I'm brainstorming. It's very rough so don't expect perfection right off the bat, please.
What if we had something like PDSes here, too? A server which hosts all of your data, i.e. the AP objects and activities that are generated whenever you interact with the network. Instances wouldn't hold your identity; instead when you register on an instance you tell it about your PDS and then the instance uses that as the database for all your stuff.
What would this solve?
- You could be part of multiple communities (instances) with a single identity. This is more natural with how things work everywhere else.
- You could move instances and not lose anything provided they handle AP activities the same way.
- Instance admins would be still be able to kick you off their instance, so moderation remains intact.
- You would be protected against situations like an instance going offline all of a sudden because all your data would be with you.
- Activities point to the PDS server instead of the instance, so moving somewhere else wouldn't require updating databases in all peers via a Move activity.
Caveat:
- You would still be fucked if the PDS goes offline.
There's a shitload of more things to consider, and I'm also not perfectly knowledgeable about AP so I may have the wrong idea about some things. But I feel this would be a path worth pursuing.
These are just some quick thoughts. I'm begging you to not get hung up on details. This happens so often when I share ideas like these and it's killing me every time.@volpeon@icy.wyvern.rip
I don't know a ton about it but doesn't the Hubzilla spin-off called (streams) have some of that stuff thanks to its nomadic identity framework?
https://codeberg.org/streams/streams -
So here's the idea I'm brainstorming. It's very rough so don't expect perfection right off the bat, please.
What if we had something like PDSes here, too? A server which hosts all of your data, i.e. the AP objects and activities that are generated whenever you interact with the network. Instances wouldn't hold your identity; instead when you register on an instance you tell it about your PDS and then the instance uses that as the database for all your stuff.
What would this solve?
- You could be part of multiple communities (instances) with a single identity. This is more natural with how things work everywhere else.
- You could move instances and not lose anything provided they handle AP activities the same way.
- Instance admins would be still be able to kick you off their instance, so moderation remains intact.
- You would be protected against situations like an instance going offline all of a sudden because all your data would be with you.
- Activities point to the PDS server instead of the instance, so moving somewhere else wouldn't require updating databases in all peers via a Move activity.
Caveat:
- You would still be fucked if the PDS goes offline.
There's a shitload of more things to consider, and I'm also not perfectly knowledgeable about AP so I may have the wrong idea about some things. But I feel this would be a path worth pursuing.
These are just some quick thoughts. I'm begging you to not get hung up on details. This happens so often when I share ideas like these and it's killing me every time.@volpeon Let's not.
I don't want to have to run a PDS too.
I don't want to have to explain to people that PDSes are a thing separate from instances and you have to worry about BOTH of them.
We need better migration, export/import from offline backup, etc.
We DON'T need to kill instances.
Let's not turn fedi into Reddit.
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@volpeon Let's not.
I don't want to have to run a PDS too.
I don't want to have to explain to people that PDSes are a thing separate from instances and you have to worry about BOTH of them.
We need better migration, export/import from offline backup, etc.
We DON'T need to kill instances.
Let's not turn fedi into Reddit.
@volpeon Throughout your entire "fedi needs to be more like bluesky!" thread I was internally yelling "have you not heard of alts?????"
alts are a thing!! there's nothing wrong with making multiple accounts!
and yes you're screwed if your instance dies but the fix for that is better migration tools.
Bringing PDSes to fedi would just make it way more complicated, and for what, all so you can log into an instance that doesn't know you with an account elsewhere? I don't see the benefit.
And I /really/ don't like the "let's kill instances as ocmmunities" mindset. Having a community is the /whole point/ of an instance (unless you do like us and selfhost). It's a /good/ thing that there isn't a second set of Platform Mods (or in your case, PDS Mods) waiting to swoop down and ban you for being unpalatable to the normies or whatever.
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@volpeon Throughout your entire "fedi needs to be more like bluesky!" thread I was internally yelling "have you not heard of alts?????"
alts are a thing!! there's nothing wrong with making multiple accounts!
and yes you're screwed if your instance dies but the fix for that is better migration tools.
Bringing PDSes to fedi would just make it way more complicated, and for what, all so you can log into an instance that doesn't know you with an account elsewhere? I don't see the benefit.
And I /really/ don't like the "let's kill instances as ocmmunities" mindset. Having a community is the /whole point/ of an instance (unless you do like us and selfhost). It's a /good/ thing that there isn't a second set of Platform Mods (or in your case, PDS Mods) waiting to swoop down and ban you for being unpalatable to the normies or whatever.
@IceWolf
> I don't want to have to run a PDS too.
Okay?
> I don't want to have to explain to people that PDSes are a thing separate from instances and you have to worry about BOTH of them.
Somehow it works for people to handle an email account and all the platforms they're part of.
> We DON'T need to kill instances.
This idea I have presented here is literally an effort to preserve instances as they are while solving the downsides they come with.
> Let's not turn fedi into Reddit.
What?
> Throughout your entire "fedi needs to be more like bluesky!" thread I was internally yelling "have you not heard of alts?????"
No, fedi doesn't need to be more like Bluesky. It needs to decouple the 2 roles instances play here as 1. a gateway and 2. a social space. ATProto just happens to do that and I believe fedi could, and should, learn some lessons from it.
> alts are a thing!! there's nothing wrong with making multiple accounts!
Yeah right, we can see how well this works here.
> and yes you're screwed if your instance dies but the fix for that is better migration tools.
If your instance suddenly goes offline then your data is gone and you're fucked. You can't migrate data that has vanished off the face of earth. It has to live somewhere else, such as an identity server. "Then let people export their data", you may say. Sure, why not, but do you seriously think it would be a good solution to ask people to export their data every week manually? And go through a weird export/import process when an identity server could turn it into a quick and easy process?
> I don't see the benefit.
Because you refuse to think about what I've said and instead construct a reality where my ideas have been implemented in the worst possible way and proceed to get mad at this shitty reality that you yourself have constructed.
> And I /really/ don't like the "let's kill instances as ocmmunities" mindset. Having a community is the /whole point/ of an instance (unless you do like us and selfhost). It's a /good/ thing that there isn't a second set of Platform Mods (or in your case, PDS Mods) waiting to swoop down and ban you for being unpalatable to the normies or whatever.
I don't know why many people on here believe that efforts to decouple the roles of instances as gateway and social space in one package will destroy communities, or will destroy moderation, etc; especially when you consider that there are plenty of situations where this has been the case for a long time and it's fine.
