Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
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Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
So many half truths. Also:
"Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity."
Excessive complexity?! You write a message and click post ... what? Is choosing a server difficult or something? I don't get it.
Excessive complexity. This is literally the hardest thing ever. Like if you want easy stuff, go work at CERN, that's where we send all the people who fail at posting here, it's the literal losers club. :neocat_what:
@catraxx No-one has yet successfully explained to me what's "complicated". Sure, picking a well-moderated and reliable server is a bit of a headache, but beyond that the experience (on Mastodon at least) is almost exactly like early Twitter.
But a lot of people arrive, and not realising that unless you actively follow people, participate in discussions and boost stuff others might appreciate...nothing happens. At all. They're so used to being spoon fed by an algo they just give up and leave.
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@catraxx No-one has yet successfully explained to me what's "complicated". Sure, picking a well-moderated and reliable server is a bit of a headache, but beyond that the experience (on Mastodon at least) is almost exactly like early Twitter.
But a lot of people arrive, and not realising that unless you actively follow people, participate in discussions and boost stuff others might appreciate...nothing happens. At all. They're so used to being spoon fed by an algo they just give up and leave.
️@ApostateEnglishman Yeah it's a bit nuts to be honest. I guess people like being lied to.
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@catraxx No-one has yet successfully explained to me what's "complicated". Sure, picking a well-moderated and reliable server is a bit of a headache, but beyond that the experience (on Mastodon at least) is almost exactly like early Twitter.
But a lot of people arrive, and not realising that unless you actively follow people, participate in discussions and boost stuff others might appreciate...nothing happens. At all. They're so used to being spoon fed by an algo they just give up and leave.
️@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx I have had someone explain and it comes down to the bar having been brought low with the user friendly front end experiences of mainstream social media of the last decade or so.
The person I talked to can't see all the backend awfulness but she finds Meta products easier to use to get immediate eyes on her posts.
Mastodon took too much time to learn and she didn't get immediaite interaction so it was "too complicated".
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@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx I have had someone explain and it comes down to the bar having been brought low with the user friendly front end experiences of mainstream social media of the last decade or so.
The person I talked to can't see all the backend awfulness but she finds Meta products easier to use to get immediate eyes on her posts.
Mastodon took too much time to learn and she didn't get immediaite interaction so it was "too complicated".
@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx Basically, same as with anything. People will accept a scam if it is user friendly even if they're told that a few extra steps would protect them and gain more of what they want.
We didn't argue but my opinion of her slipped dramatically especially because she runs an indie publishing house for LGBTQ+ and other voices.
She is overwhelmed by the work and so social media is something that she wants to be easy. At the same time, I think she'd get more mileage here.
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@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx Basically, same as with anything. People will accept a scam if it is user friendly even if they're told that a few extra steps would protect them and gain more of what they want.
We didn't argue but my opinion of her slipped dramatically especially because she runs an indie publishing house for LGBTQ+ and other voices.
She is overwhelmed by the work and so social media is something that she wants to be easy. At the same time, I think she'd get more mileage here.
@clarablackink @catraxx Yeah and the fedi is *generally speaking* among the most LGBTQ-friendly environments on the internet. I've seen a few queer folks on here saying they get more "eyes on" their work, because it's so enthusiastically boosted. It just takes that little bit more effort to build up a following that gets you over the threshold for virality!
Heck, even some of my darker political posts have hundreds of boosts. On Twitter I had thousands of followers but half the engagement.
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@clarablackink @catraxx Yeah and the fedi is *generally speaking* among the most LGBTQ-friendly environments on the internet. I've seen a few queer folks on here saying they get more "eyes on" their work, because it's so enthusiastically boosted. It just takes that little bit more effort to build up a following that gets you over the threshold for virality!
Heck, even some of my darker political posts have hundreds of boosts. On Twitter I had thousands of followers but half the engagement.
@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx I tried to explain the boosting to her and she lashed out that she didn't want people "stealing" her content.
I think a lot of why people stick with the tech companies is that they say all the things people want to hear while doing whatever they want on the back end because they know how people don't understand tech and feel overwhelmed by the idea of it.
And yes, the boosting is how I find so many cool threads and people on here.
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@ApostateEnglishman @catraxx I tried to explain the boosting to her and she lashed out that she didn't want people "stealing" her content.
I think a lot of why people stick with the tech companies is that they say all the things people want to hear while doing whatever they want on the back end because they know how people don't understand tech and feel overwhelmed by the idea of it.
And yes, the boosting is how I find so many cool threads and people on here.
@clarablackink @ApostateEnglishman Stealing?
How is boosting stealing? Are search engines stealing her content, too? -
Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
So many half truths. Also:
"Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity."
Excessive complexity?! You write a message and click post ... what? Is choosing a server difficult or something? I don't get it.
Excessive complexity. This is literally the hardest thing ever. Like if you want easy stuff, go work at CERN, that's where we send all the people who fail at posting here, it's the literal losers club. :neocat_what:
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@catraxx i think the quote you highlighted is actually an example of editorializing bc it doesn't say who considers it excessively complex. i may try to edit that although i've had multiple edits in this regard reverted recently
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Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
So many half truths. Also:
"Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity."
Excessive complexity?! You write a message and click post ... what? Is choosing a server difficult or something? I don't get it.
Excessive complexity. This is literally the hardest thing ever. Like if you want easy stuff, go work at CERN, that's where we send all the people who fail at posting here, it's the literal losers club. :neocat_what:
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@EricLawton Right?!
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Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
So many half truths. Also:
"Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity."
Excessive complexity?! You write a message and click post ... what? Is choosing a server difficult or something? I don't get it.
Excessive complexity. This is literally the hardest thing ever. Like if you want easy stuff, go work at CERN, that's where we send all the people who fail at posting here, it's the literal losers club. :neocat_what:
@catraxx Choosing a server is the first barrier. It is a barrier because you have to make a choice based on ZERO information. Why do I have to choose a server? Which one is good? What makes a good server?
Second barrier is: why can't I see all the replies? That sort of comes back to which server did you choose. From the POV of a person on a small server Mastodon feels half empty. From the POV of a popular person you get a lot of duplicated responses. That is annoying.
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@catraxx one of the citations for that line says:
Tildes? Furries? Some Belgian company?
mixed feelings about how it frames furries here https://mxb.dev/blog/the-indieweb-for-everyone/
@hipsterelectron The information in the article is also no longer true (and unsure if it ever was) because a search for mastodon brings up up mastodon.social and joinmastodon, both of which try to make you join mastodon.social first and joinmastodon then also offers a list of servers for those interested in more.
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@catraxx Choosing a server is the first barrier. It is a barrier because you have to make a choice based on ZERO information. Why do I have to choose a server? Which one is good? What makes a good server?
Second barrier is: why can't I see all the replies? That sort of comes back to which server did you choose. From the POV of a person on a small server Mastodon feels half empty. From the POV of a popular person you get a lot of duplicated responses. That is annoying.
@owiecc If you know that you can choose a server, you already know more than the average user, who searches for "mastodon" and is promptly send to mastodon.social.
And annoying =/= "Excessively complex".
At best the wording should be that there are technical differences in how the fediverse works, which can be irritating to some.
Excessively complex is doing your taxes or reading a trade agreement. It is not registering and posting in the fediverse.
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@owiecc If you know that you can choose a server, you already know more than the average user, who searches for "mastodon" and is promptly send to mastodon.social.
And annoying =/= "Excessively complex".
At best the wording should be that there are technical differences in how the fediverse works, which can be irritating to some.
Excessively complex is doing your taxes or reading a trade agreement. It is not registering and posting in the fediverse.
@catraxx The "send do mastodon.social" was done especially because a lot of people were turned away. Good move IMO, but when the developer making @PixelFed did something similar there was a big community pushback.
Going back to what you wrote about the Wikipedia article, it should be expanded. The first sentence from adoption section cites sources from 2022. Many of the issues raised were addressed already.
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@catraxx The "send do mastodon.social" was done especially because a lot of people were turned away. Good move IMO, but when the developer making @PixelFed did something similar there was a big community pushback.
Going back to what you wrote about the Wikipedia article, it should be expanded. The first sentence from adoption section cites sources from 2022. Many of the issues raised were addressed already.
@owiecc I do believe the wording has to be entirely different. It has a very negative tone, when at best it should be neutral.
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Man, the Wikipedia article on the Fediverse is really kinda shit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fediverse
So many half truths. Also:
"Users have been slow to embrace the Fediverse due to poor user experience and excessive complexity."
Excessive complexity?! You write a message and click post ... what? Is choosing a server difficult or something? I don't get it.
Excessive complexity. This is literally the hardest thing ever. Like if you want easy stuff, go work at CERN, that's where we send all the people who fail at posting here, it's the literal losers club. :neocat_what:
@catraxx i think it's choosing a server, i didn't knew hubzilla existed until today and it's older than mastodon.
Also it's a lot easier to gain followers and follow interesting people on bluesky and other platfomrs than on here. But that's MY opinion. I have very little followers. To speak to no one I'll keep a diary. -
@catraxx i think it's choosing a server, i didn't knew hubzilla existed until today and it's older than mastodon.
Also it's a lot easier to gain followers and follow interesting people on bluesky and other platfomrs than on here. But that's MY opinion. I have very little followers. To speak to no one I'll keep a diary.@chad006 Would you rate this as "Excessively complex", though, or wouldn't you agree that this article is being overly negative?
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@owiecc If you know that you can choose a server, you already know more than the average user, who searches for "mastodon" and is promptly send to mastodon.social.
And annoying =/= "Excessively complex".
At best the wording should be that there are technical differences in how the fediverse works, which can be irritating to some.
Excessively complex is doing your taxes or reading a trade agreement. It is not registering and posting in the fediverse.
@catraxx @owiecc there's also the "why am I logged into Mastodon but when I go to like, boost or reply to a post from a link it's asking me to log in or go back to my server?"
Because you've landed on a different server hosting the same Mastodon software, skinned, branded, and styled *identically*. But it's not the same. It's a different instance with no awareness of your account.
That's not an easy concept to grasp for a casual user, and the interface, while better, is still not that helpful
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@catraxx @owiecc there's also the "why am I logged into Mastodon but when I go to like, boost or reply to a post from a link it's asking me to log in or go back to my server?"
Because you've landed on a different server hosting the same Mastodon software, skinned, branded, and styled *identically*. But it's not the same. It's a different instance with no awareness of your account.
That's not an easy concept to grasp for a casual user, and the interface, while better, is still not that helpful
